Response to
“Christiandefense” posted by: Michael Interbartolo.
Response to
“Christiandefense” posted by: Michael Interbartolo.
“Michael Interbartolo” referred to as “MI”.
My comments in black, MI in red.
MI says,
“John 1:1
1. John 1:18 and the significance of the articular participle ὁ ὢν.
2. The “sent from heaven” passages
3. The eternal ἐγώ εἰμι (“I am”) claims of the Son
4. John 17:5
5. The Carmen Christi (Phil. 2:6-11)
6. The Son as the agent of creation, the Creator Himself (esp. John 1:3;
Col. 1:16-17; and Heb. 1:10-12)”
My focus will be on point 6. "The Son as the agent of creation, the Creator Himself"
“The Son as the agent of creation, the Creator Himself (esp. John 1:3; Col. 1:16-17; and Heb. 1:10-12)”
Is the son the creator?
“Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.” NIV
“All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was
made.” KJV
Original Greek
“πάντα δι’ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ
χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν ὃ γέγονεν.”
The “Christiandefense”
said The Son as the agent of
creation, the Creator Himself (with emphasis on John 1:3; Col. 1:16-17; and Heb. 1:10-12). I’ll start with John 1:3.
The “Christiandefense”,
openly contradicts itself by saying with one side of its Trinitarian mouth that
Jesus is simultaneously:
“the agent of
creation, the Creator Himself”
The original Greek tells us something somewhat rather different to “Christiandefense”;
it says that the “all things” (πάντα)
were (Passive) “made through him” (δι’ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο) not “by” (Active) him,
Jesus is the “agent, mediator, instrument “through whom” the Father “made” (ἐγένετο)
(1 Cor 8:6) the “all things”, the “all things” are “out/from (ek) of the
Father, by means of the son the “through whom” the “all things” were made. 1
Cor 8:6.
Nowhere in any part of scripture, is the verb “ktizo” (create) used of the son,
this is reserved for the Father alone, as he is the sole Creator, however, he
expressed his creatorship not directly with regard to the “all things”, but
“through” his son the “through whom” of creation, the Father alone is the true
origin/Source of creative energy/power, he alone is the Final Cause, whereas,
the son is the instrumental cause, the agent of creation, its Master
Worker/Craftsman. (Prov. 8:22).
What Trinitarian web sites like “Christiandefense” does, is to alter the meaning that
John 1:3 gives by injecting its Trinitarian theology with expressions like “The Son… (is)
the Creator Himself,” the apostle never ever
intended such a meaning to be injected and understood that way, but,
Trinitarian web sources like “Christiandefense” have no qualms in slipping in their
theological bias!
A note from the Trinitarian scholars
“Dana & Mantey”
“although “διά”
is occasionally used to express agency, it does not approximate the full
strength of ὑπο
(hupo). This distinction throws light on Jesus' relation to the creation,
implying that Jesus was not the absolute independent creator, but rather the
intermediate agent in creation.... Jn. 1:3 ... Heb. 1:2.... The Passive With Intermediate
Agent. When the agent is the medium through which the original cause has
effected the action expressed by the passive verb, the regular construction is διά with the genitive . . . All things were
made through him. Jn. 1:3. Here God the Father is thought of as the original
cause of creation, and the Λόγος [Logos]
as the intermediate agent.”
The above Trinitarian scholars disagree it seems with “Christiandefense” and “Michael Interbartolo”, especially when two of the most respected
Trinitarian scholars, Dr. H.E. Dana and Dr. Julius Mantey readily admit:
“This distinction throws light on Jesus'
relation to the creation, implying that Jesus was not the absolute independent
creator, but rather the intermediate agent in creation”
“…implying that Jesus was not the
absolute independent creator, but rather the intermediate agent in creation”
Source:
H. E. Dana and Julius R. Mantey, A Manual
Grammar of the Greek New Testament (New York: Macmillan Company, 1928),
102, 162.
No comments:
Post a Comment